WIFI Extender thoughts

Feature Requests
1

I’ll be honest, this module didn’t interest me at all after reading the page for it. It comes off as a glorified USB drive pretty much.

BUT according to user gabrielroth on Modwiggler you will be able to also upload by pressing a button on the module in VCV. This is something else entirely than going to a certain page for the extender, browse for the file, upload it.

Why not have a timer (maybe as an option) to have it auto update the MM via wifi? Maybe you could set it to either every 5 seconds, 30 seconds, 5 minutes etc? This would be incredibly handy.

You should really update the page for the WIFI extender too, to create more hype. Since it’s coming to stores soon you should update it so that they don’t copy and use the old information.
I don’t mean to insult your intelligence with this, you probably have a lot on your plate and things change rapidly etc.

2

Hello! Here’s the source for that: Expanders status? - #10 by danngreen

1 Like
4

There ar many scenarios where it would be useful.
I guess the most common one for me would be that most of the time i have external modules connected to my MM. How does it perform with those connected, i will know much faster than having to manually press the button every time i make an edit.

I am also much more interested in how it sounds from the actual module and to the speakers i have for my modular system, than how it sounds in VCV and though my other speakers.

Best case scenario would be real-time update directly to the module, but likely that is not possible, an auto-update every other minute would be good enough + just a lazy way of not having to remember to push the button all the time when working in VCV.

While i am not a programmer, i would think that implementing something that automatically triggers the send button every X second or minute would be very easy to do. Since we’re in the modular world, maybe add a virtual In to it so we can trigger it whenever we want :smiley:

5

Bear in mind that you’d still need to reload the patch on the Meta Module every time you want a change to take effect there — it wouldn’t automatically update the patch while it’s playing.

6

I see. I hope something like that could be automated eventually, especially if its on MM’s side and not a VCV issue.

Sounds a bit too cumbersome to send and also having to reload, imo… slightly better than using a KVM switch i guess.

Realtime is probably asking a bit much, but a send / receive / apply(reload) auto function would still make me pretty excited for it.

7

while the idea of a auto-update / sync is appealing.

I think it would cause audio glitching, so might be undesirable.
also its a bit unnecessary whilst you are building a patch.

why does that matter?
well I have my MM connected rest of my rack and have live audio from it at all times… so if its starts glitching, Im going to have to reach over and mute it :wink:

however, I do think an auto-reload when you hit the wifi button on the vcv 4ms hub would be useful… as thats a definite action by the user.
(and if already have your hands on the PC/Mac , its not a big deal to press a button)

ofc, there are complications.
e.g. what to do if MM is running a different patch, or if you have also altered patch on MM, so don’t necessarily want to overwrite that change.
so def, needs some logic in this.

overall, to go to the next step… (over simple transfer)
I think it be good to review the workflow, how do users want to use vcv alongside the MM.
get a bit of a higher level view - what’s trying to be achieved, rather than how (implementation)

8

if you’re building a patch that is supposed to work with other modules in your setup it would be really great if it could update rather often, and in a less tedious way than having to send and reload the patch manually. Because that’s pretty much how it works already. yes, there would be a slight benefit to be able to press a send button, reload, in comparison to saving the patch to the card and then reloading it.

I don’t see why it would glitch out if it reloads the patch in its entirety automatically. then it would also glitch out if you do this manually, it would be the same procedure.
Again, it could also be an optional setting to have it do this.

The key focus should be, how can we make it far less of a hassle / annoyance to work with patches - how can the MM be updated frequently with the patch you’re working on and with as little interaction as possible. Otherwise the module serves little to no purpose in comparison to using a KVM switch.

9

yeah, I generally agree, Id like a ‘live’ patching view.

the reason it could glitch is because if you do a ‘timed’ update, your patch may not be in a consistent state.

this is different from a live update where every change made in vcv is done at the same time, in the same order on the MM.
i.e. you patch a cable 1 then cable 2 , it does it on the fly in that order.

now theoretically the 4ms mm hub could do this by monitoring the vcv patch real time, and determining differences and applying those as charges … rather than every N seconds just resending the entire patch.
BUT it’s a lot more work to do … but I think the right direction (eventually)

also I think to understand the motivation behind this, we need to discuss WHY?

a lot of the time, this kind of live patching is NOT required.
simply because you can get the patch working in vcv, then send it across when its done. it does really add that much.

( I used axoloti and eagan matrix which has live patching, its has its merits and drawbacks)

I think a couple of reasons for a more live workflow are:

a) integration with your eurorack
this is the big one for me…
most of the time I can set up the patch in vcv desktop to work there, but sometimes I want to see/hear it in context with other modules.
e.g. I might have a sequencer playing on Frap Tools USTA, or I might be running the output of MM into Qubit Nebulae.
its not so easy for me to simulate these on the desktop…
(ok, I can use another eurorack module to start sending cv/audio to/vcv desktop … but its a faff, and involves me changing the eurorack patch)

the next two, are lesser reasons (imo), as you can work around much easier.

b) mm is cpu bound, pc likely is not
we need to know when out patch is getting too complex.
I dont think we need live patching for this, just being able to send quickly/easily - one touch, will do.
however. it would be very useful to have a CPU load meter from MM sent to VCV so we can see where we are when we send patches.

c) vcv and mm modules are sometimes different
the solution to this is trying to make them more similar, but need to recognise this is a driver.

anyway, thats what I mean about trying to understand what we are trying to achieve, before think how it has to be implement - often there are different solutions.

10

Yes, i can see how that could glitch out i guess, like it saves/sends when not optimal.

If someone rarely needs the MM to be updated via VCV then a module like this doesn’t add a lot to your workflow (in its current state). At least if you’re using a KVM Switch, that will be fast enough for most, let’s say you save every 40 minutes or something.
I found myself doing a patch where i had to do a ton of testing via the module itself after a few edits, that got very annoying since i updated like every 4-5 minutes for maybe 1.5h. Something like my explanation of it auto-updating would’ve made it far less annoying + would have sped up the process a ton.

I think the module will sell anyways, if that’s mostly the concern. WIFI is more hip to use than USB which feels a bit dated, even if the WIFI doesn’t really make the workflow that much faster. WIFI will also remove the need for the cable (if using a switch) so that will be enough for some as well.

A send - apply patch automatically function would make me buy it. A Send - reload patch manually, probably not. Because that would save me only ~4 seconds or something? Not worth $100 or the space for the module.

Yes, CPU load meter for MM would be very useful to have in VCV :slight_smile: